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Post by benteeneast on Sept 15, 2013 11:26:00 GMT -5
A view from the timber would have to be something close to the edge of the bluffs.
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Post by keogh on Jun 6, 2014 20:40:45 GMT -5
Congratulations to out to Fred Wagner for an excellent and interesting article on Boston Custer's ride from the pack train to Custer's command in the recent edition of the LBHA Newsletter. Fred arrives at the conclusion that Boston passed over the bluffs in time to see Reno's retreat from the valley and thus informed the General of this very important development. The notion that Custer was aware of Reno's retreat from the valley is a controversial issue. The Crow scouts gave conflicting accounts. Fred clearly believes that Custer was informed of Reno's situation. I am in agreement with him on that.
garryowen,
keogh
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Post by mchlwilson on Jun 8, 2014 21:03:50 GMT -5
I think it's equally possible Boston misled Custer by saying something like "Reno's giving them hell", in the same way Kanipe's statements were misleading to Benteen's men and the pack train.
Boston wasn't a soldier. He may not have have understood what he saw, or may have told his brother what he thought his brother wanted to hear. There are many possibilities.
Such faulty reporting could explain why Custer moved his command several miles farther downriver instead of returning the way he came.
I think Fred's argument on Boston's movements better supports the conclusion that Custer was misled by Boston's information. Fred says Custer would have assumed Reno would conduct a proper retreat back the way he had come. He also says if Custer had run into trouble at Ford B he would have retreated the way he had come. But if Custer thought Reno was retreating, then why did he move miles downriver? Surely news that a subordinate commander is in full retreat would have been as good a reason for retreating as running into trouble at Ford B.
Thoughts?
Michael
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Post by keogh on Jun 9, 2014 0:31:31 GMT -5
I think it's equally possible Boston misled Custer by saying something like "Reno's giving them hell", in the same way Kanipe's statements were misleading to Benteen's men and the pack train. Boston wasn't a soldier. He may not have have understood what he saw, or may have told his brother what he thought his brother wanted to hear. There are many possibilities. Such faulty reporting could explain why Custer moved his command several miles farther downriver instead of returning the way he came. I think Fred's argument on Boston's movements better supports the conclusion that Custer was misled by Boston's information. Fred says Custer would have assumed Reno would conduct a proper retreat back the way he had come. He also says if Custer had run into trouble at Ford B he would have retreated the way he had come. But if Custer thought Reno was retreating, then why did he move miles downriver? Surely news that a subordinate commander is in full retreat would have been as good a reason for retreating as running into trouble at Ford B. Thoughts? Michael Michael, we can only speculate on what Boston saw and reported to his brother that day. My own timeline developed and posted here at the forum indicates that Boston arrived in Medicine Tail Coulee well before Reno retreated from the valley, so I don't happen to believe he told his brother anything at all about the Reno fight other than it was progressing well. Here is my own timeline for Boston Custer's ride based on all the primary accounts available: thelbha.proboards.com/thread/2254/boston-custers-rideI do happen to agree with Fred that Custer learned of Reno's retreat from the valley, but I believe it came from Mitch Boyer stationed on upper Boyer's Bluff at the time. To me, the greatest indication that Custer knew of Reno's retreat was the fact that he never bothered to cross the river at Ford B when he had 5 companies of Cavalry in the near vicinity and was only opposed by a dozen or so camp guards. Had Reno remained at the Garryowen Loop, I have no doubt Custer would have attempted to cross the river at Ford B and attack the warriors from behind. You ask why Custer chose to move further north if he realized Reno had retreated from the valley? We can only speculate, but I would point out that the evidence, as I interpret it at least, strongly suggests that Custer remained in the vicinity of Ford B and Nye-Cartright (Blummer) Ridge and Luce Ridge for sometime between 30 to 40 minutes before moving off to the north. I believe Custer was waiting for elements of his Regiment to join him at Luce Ridge before he elected to finally move further to the north. Doing so, of course, was the fatal decision that sealed his fate, as it cut him off from his supporting units, especially as those supporting units made little or no effort to join him for the next 2 1/2 hours. There are a number of reasons why Custer may have chosen to move further to the north at this time. But rather than discuss and debate all of them, it might be more fruitful to suggest that if Custer thought Reno was still fighting at the Garryowen Loop, he would have surely attempted a crossing at Ford B. Indian accounts (other than the fanciful White Cow Bull) tell us that never happened. garryowen, keogh
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