Custer after 3411 Sept 24, 2012 9:12:45 GMT -5
Post by jag on Sept 24, 2012 9:12:45 GMT -5
But that's just it. Martin did not call SSR "the bluffs"; he called it a "big hill" on the bluffs.
Jag wrote:There you go again. NO HE DID NOT CALL IT THAT! Read his statement again. He didn't say that. You know he didn't say that. And you can't make him say that.
Ok, Jag, Martin usually referred to this area as the high ground or the high ridge, which, of course, is a far better description of SSR than "the bluffs" which he only used one time in his description of the area. He also used the words hill or big hill to describe the observation point. Here is a sampling of the words Martin did use to describe the area from which he and Custer first viewed the Indian village:
went on top of the ridge.
Before Custer reached the high ridge.
“As soon as the command left this high point everybody passed out of sight from Reno’s position and went down the hollow toward Dry Creek [Medicine Tail Coulee].”
Then Custer halted command on the high ridge about 10 minutes, and officers looked at village through glasses.
In the later interview, Martini said Custer halted on Weir hill [not Weir Point], but could only see about 1/3 of the village. [as the view of the valley is partially blocked here by Weir Point.]
“Martini says whole column passed over the high ridge from which they could plainly see village and children and dogs in it. Martini says he was with Custer after he passed the high ground as the command started down [ie. alongside] a ravine to get off the bluff, somewhat to the right of highest ground and about 1,000 feet from it.”
The command went down off the hill and the command passed down [ie. beside] a ravine toward the dry creek (MTC).
Martin started back on the trail and before he got to the hill where the command had halted.
After this I met Boston Custer…”  [Camp claims this was when Martin was on the bluffs. “This is another good proof that Custer hesitated and stopped some considerable time after he came in sight of village.”
“After we had gone about a mile or two we came to a big hill that overlooked the valley, and we rode around the base of it and halted.”
Now suddenly Custer takes Martini and views the valley from “the top of the hill.”
Custer now turned in his saddle, took off his hat and waved it to his men—“halted at the base of the hill”—and shouted, “Hurrah, boys, we’ve got them! We’ll finish them up and then go home to our station.”
When Martini was asked by Lyman Gilbert to look at the map and try to identify where Martini saw the village. Martini replied, “It was on a line leading from Major Reno’s position to the point ‘7’ as I understand the map. This point 7 was at the south end of SSR on the map., just a short distance north of Reno's corral.
I think the readers of the forum can make up their own minds as to the what area Martin was describing in his various accounts. They are all consistent and all point to the same area. To my reading, he describes viewing the village from a big hill on a high ridge, a view that blocked the larger portion of the village from higher peaks to the north. Martin clearly stated that they could only see a few hundred tepees from this location.
First off. Some of these don't have full quotes, your first and 2nd being examples of that. Those need to be fully quoted, as they all do. 2nd, they all need to be quoted within their respective paragraphs they were taken from to fully appreciate the full context of what he was conveying. 3rd, we all could do without your interpretation of WHERE you think any of that terrain was. That is, if you are truly interested in letting others derive their own opinions without your help. In other words, present the quotes without your biased commentary, and yeah, let them make up their own minds, I'd agree with that.