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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2008 13:24:00 GMT -5
This is probably not the place to do it and I am probably dredging up more inane crap by doing so, but I just couldn't let it go. Several days ago, I looked at Mrs. Merkel's site just to read posts by Gordon Harper and Elisabeth Kimber. (When I want to find out something good, I usually turn to posts by either or both of them.) I was shocked to see that Elisabeth had "deleted her account," driven to it by the incessant attacks of one particular moron (thank God it wasn't me!).
For those of you who do not know Elisabeth, it is my opinion that she is the most knowledgeable person-- along with Harper-- in this subject, anywhere. Her loss is a blow to anyone interested in reading "facts," "theories," "trivia," or anything to do with George Custer, Myles Keogh, and the Battle of the LBH. This is just another example of the destructiveness of vindictiveness. The person who is responsible is someone I refer to as the Village Idiot and he has caused a number of people I know to have simply given up because they cannot stand the constant berating, the constant belittling, the constant harangues. Believe me... I know, because I have been part of it and bear some of the responsibility myself (though certainly not in this case!!!!!).
This is a loss for all of us and it bears remembering the next time we want to "take someone on." I know I will remember... except, of course, if I ever have the occasion to confront the Village Idiot again.
Elisabeth was... and is... the very best.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by Melani on Sept 8, 2008 14:56:23 GMT -5
What Fred said. We should all remember that it is perfectly possible to disagree with each other without being nasty or getting personal.
The "gentleman" (?) Fred describes as the Village Idiot has suggested that if anybody doesn't like what he posts, they should simply ignore it. An excellent suggestion. He gives new meaning to the term "troll."
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Post by Melani on Sept 8, 2008 15:29:42 GMT -5
If anyone who doesn't already know her (or even if you do!) would like to see an example of Elisabeth's scholarship, please check out "A Visit to Orchard." www.littlebighorn.info/Articles.htm
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Post by keogh on Sept 9, 2008 0:17:08 GMT -5
I ditto what Fred said above. Elisabeth is the grand dame of our Custeriana (and Keoghiana) forums, and it is a bloody shame to see this wonderful historian (and yes, despite the protestations from the 'cloud of perpetual darkness', she is a historian of the highest caliber) leave our circle of online friends for any reason. Regarding the aforesaid 'Rhetorician of the Rockies', I would suggest he take his own advice and ignore posts he does not like, rather than bully and denigrate others views with his flowery prose, which often, like the petals of a sweet rose, is found embedded within the sharp barbs of a thorn bush. Avoid the temptation to waft the scent of this rose. Its petals begin to wilt and its fragrance falls short.
Why the chief gardener continues to fertilize this rancorous bush is anyones guess. Clearly "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."
I sincerely hope that we will see the return of Elisabeth and the very interesting and informed Doyle1876 back in our family of friends and correspondants before too much time has passed.
Garryowen,
keogh
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2008 11:20:38 GMT -5
Actually, I did not intend this to be a "bashing" or a referendum on sites, though I must admit, I completely agree with Melani and "keogh."
I must also apologize for not being a more frequent contributor, but my present circumstances have precluded me from being one. My friend "keogh" knows why.
My main purpose in starting this thread was simply to bemoan the loss of someone like Elisabeth-- from any site-- especially in the manner of her departure. It is a damned shame that people like the Village Idiot are tolerated as much as they are, especially since their contributions can be measured with a micrometer... if at all. Quite frankly, I can think of not one single thing I have learned from that person's pontificating. Elisabeth on the other hand...
The problem here is simply one of jealousy and failure and the people taken to task the most are always those who make the biggest contributions. The crime is that it is the rest of us who are forced to pay and we pay because knowledge we can gain from people like Elisabeth is no longer forthcoming. And it isn't the specific, event-driven facts we lose, it is the analysis, the thoughts behind it all, the what-ifs driven by that knowledge, that will now elude us. That is the destructiveness rained upon us all by people like... well, people like The Idiot.
I await the "yellow"-ed name, "Elisabeth," whatever it may show up.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by cisdyd on Sept 9, 2008 13:38:57 GMT -5
Actually, I did not intend this to be a "bashing" or a referendum on sites, though I must admit, I completely agree with Melani and "keogh." I must also apologize for not being a more frequent contributor, but my present circumstances have precluded me from being one. My friend "keogh" knows why. My main purpose in starting this thread was simply to bemoan the loss of someone like Elisabeth-- from any site-- especially in the manner of her departure. It is a damned shame that people like the Village Idiot are tolerated as much as they are, especially since their contributions can be measured with a micrometer... if at all. Quite frankly, I can think of not one single thing I have learned from that person's pontificating. Elisabeth on the other hand... The problem here is simply one of jealousy and failure and the people taken to task the most are always those who make the biggest contributions. The crime is that it is the rest of us who are forced to pay and we pay because knowledge we can gain from people like Elisabeth is no longer forthcoming. And it isn't the specific, event-driven facts we lose, it is the analysis, the thoughts behind it all, the what-ifs driven by that knowledge, that will now elude us. That is the destructiveness rained upon us all by people like... well, people like The Idiot. I await the "yellow"-ed name, "Elisabeth," whatever it may show up. Best wishes, Fred. I simply can't resist: lbha.proboards12.com/index.cgi?board=basics&action=display&thread=1126&page=4 and reply # 53 Fred, I'll give you a call soon to catch up. CISDYD
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Post by Melani on Sept 9, 2008 16:32:15 GMT -5
Okay, cisdyd, so the guy's not totally useless. The problem is his behavior. It is perfectly possible to say the same things he says in a non-inflammatory way, but it seems that he finds trashing people and inciting arguments more fun. That's the difference between having a discussion and being berated for your opinions.
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Post by cisdyd on Sept 9, 2008 20:00:28 GMT -5
Okay, cisdyd, so the guy's not totally useless. The problem is his behavior. It is perfectly possible to say the same things he says in a non-inflammatory way, but it seems that he finds trashing people and inciting arguments more fun. That's the difference between having a discussion and being berated for your opinions. Mel, my post isn't about DC as much as it is Fredrico's memory; although if you read my last post re: bullying on the other board you will realize that I did not like it also. Personally, while I like DC's ability to force people to be fact-based, in the case of Elisabeth and Doyle, I think he stepped way over any lines that could be drawn by harassing/bullying and just being a general pain in the arse. Which above reminds me to talk to Jim to see if I can post his latest email regarding various things about his book. Be good, Billy, aka, CISDYD
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Post by Melani on Sept 10, 2008 0:54:16 GMT -5
Tell him I loved the book--and I read it all the way through, regardless of accusations to the contrary. What's more, my friend who knows nothing about LBH except casual stuff I have told him during commutes on the freeway is also loving it--a good adult-level introduction. He said it was very well-written.
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Post by strange on Sept 11, 2008 21:23:38 GMT -5
Whew!------- I'm glad that I'm not the Village Idiot which you guys were talking about!
For the record, I think I also got into a bad tiff with Elizabeth on the other board. I'd like to send my sincerest apologies for that situation. "Forum Edicate" wasn't completely known to me at the time. The Internet remains very unusual to me because I only started using it about 1 or 2 years ago (I am much younger than most of you, but I like to stick to more tangible things in life such as books, Television, Movies, etc.. Internet is still not my favorite pasttime, but I'll often find my way back to it! Again, and again.).
The other board can be a little hard to breath in, there's so many people and so many subjects (last time I looked, there was a board labeled with "discuss any one from the 19th century"). Commonly, I think that almost all of you are lightyears ahead of any typical internet forum. Getting so many minds in one place is gonna cause a lot of bull horns to collide. I encourage everyone not to be discouraged by bullies, and I hope every one stays available with things to say and things to hear. Leave only at your discretion, and don't be intimidated.
Strange
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Post by Melani on Sept 11, 2008 23:13:07 GMT -5
Strange, you're anything but an idiot, and we're glad to have you here!
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Post by strange on Sept 12, 2008 17:28:27 GMT -5
When knowledge is ornery, and rumours need fixin' The Stranger is near, with his good buddy Nixon Behold! The Dual Nature of Strangeness! Strange
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Post by bc on Sept 12, 2008 17:56:49 GMT -5
Another Nixon fan. Nixon did a lot of great things for this country. Are you the honest half or the crook half of Nixon?
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Post by strange on Sept 12, 2008 23:31:20 GMT -5
Another Nixon fan. Nixon did a lot of great things for this country. Are you the honest half or the crook half of Nixon? HONEST HALF! So boldly so, that I draw myself in the Undies! Nixon started in the Eisenhower administration, and I'm very fond of Eisenhower. He's a bit rough around the edges, but I like having a bulldog style politician. He had a similar youthful exuberance just like Kennedy, but poor Nixon couldn't sit on that comfort for long because he didn't have a wealthy family to watch his rear. I'd say Nixon is three times the worker of any politicians. His major failings are derived more from a country that scorned him, and from so many wayward things happening in the world at his time. He probably would've served much better if he had been elected in 1960. My family is also very fond of Ford (seemingly we are the only ones who are). He returned the country to its functioning state. Strangely it was Oliver Stone's movie which got me interested in Nixon, and I'll applaud him for trying to rise above his liberal leanings and look at Nixon's life more thoroughly. Nixon and Jimmy Hoffa also offer me my own special view of the Kennedy conspiracy. I think most conspiracy theorists are faulted in the fact that they are too pro-Kennedy. There are some villainized individuals who are not half as bad as they are depicted, and conspiracy enthusiasts could've benefited with a little less finger pointing. I've enjoyed most preseidents, up until the dastardly administrations of Clinton and Bush jr. (which happen to be the ones which I've lived through most of my life). When I was 2 or 3 years old, I felt extra pleased with everything around me and I still recall EXACTLY how much I enjoyed the first Bush who had just come off fresh from the mighty Reagan administration. I can also see some good things about Bush jr., but Clinton is the one I despise the most. Clinton really screwed up law enforcement people in my state. Iowa is a very liberal state, and liberal cops are borderline Nazi's. A neighbor called in a bunch of phony charges about my dogs and cats. My dog Lucky is 16 years old now (human years) and he's a rare Jindo dog from Korea which is built slender like a coyote. I showed my dog to the dizzy police dame, gave every piece of information about him........ and the damn police still made us jump through hoops for a whole month before we could clear our names from the charge of "animal neglect". Just simple situations like that. Thats fascism. Strange
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Post by nanaotameoxz on Sept 13, 2008 9:18:48 GMT -5
Clinton probably made that 'phone call his own self.
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