My bottom line is I don't think you know the actual distances we are discussing (which is 8 miles) nor average speeds of cavalry moving to contact. My average speed opinion for 1876 cavalry would be within the range of a trot. (6-10 mph). Then I would use accounts to estimate what they actually did on that particular day moving to contact in battle battalion assignments.
So what we are discussing is Bill's 8 mile opinion starting after the 1.45 -2 mile mark (@ 6 mph) and ending at about 1.25-1.5 miles from the river. So that is about 8 miles. During which they were seen galloping. So what overall speed do you think they did during that 8 miles?
But we are to believe the finest cavalry in 1876 could move to contact no faster than a walk. I don't think so.
Why would you believe that? I have seen no post or evidence by anyone, anyplace that made a foolish statement like that one. With halts, the average mph will go down. Only a fool would say that Custer " walked all the way to the battle." I know that I have NEVER stated Custer walked all the way to the river.
Get real and quit making crap up. Move to contact NO FASTER THAN A WALK. …. OMG what next? More "fibs" I would guess.
Enough is enough!!
It simple math. Take your distance and time to figure mph.
When it came to shoeing the horses, did each man shoe his own, or was there one particular guy that did it? Did soldiers carry extra nails & shoes in their pouches? What was the norm to the care, repair and supplies to this task?
I think Justin answered you but I could not see it. I agree there was a farrier and one of the farriers was with the set of fours that went back from C company. I believe it trooper carried a front and rear shoe with them. It would only make sense that one farrier had the tools. I am guessing the farrier sized the front and rear hoof and gave them to the trooper.
I stated that the rest of the men were NOT....I repeat.....NOT riding race horses. So there is no need to get up tight about the term race horse.
As for timelines. Mine start at the divide crossing. And end with Reno crossing the river. We know there were stops in between; but the battle does not start until after Reno crosses.
Using math to figure out how long it took Custer to reach the river might not work. Custer left the divide at noon on the 25th of June and as of today, he still hasn't reached the river. He is still waiting for Benteen and Reno to "Drive the Indians to the Yellowstone"
Get it right . This has already been covered. Do your math again.
Justin you are funny even if not accurate. Distance divided by time will always equal overall rate of travel. Its simple math. Everything discussed here has been covered long before you arrived here. It's how boards work. New people have questions and get to view differing opinions. On rare occasions we discuss something new. Changing from Gray having Custer walking down Reno Creek to discussing Fred having Custer trot down Reno Creek at times is a change. Both methods used math. Gray took the distance and divided it by 4 mph to come up with time. Fred took the distance and account time to come up with overall rate of travel. Again both simple math.
If you give some a head start and catch up with them and stay side by side you both have the same overall rate of travel. One could be walking the whole distance and the other sprinting but it does not change the overall rate of travel as long as it is the same distance.
Post by benteeneast on Jan 7, 2020 13:53:32 GMT -5
Reno was acting as second in command until they crossed the divide and reached the separation point. He then received his battalion and moved down Reno Creek from that point. I bet you will find out that you more likely believe Fred's timeline then Gray's which has been the two major published timelines. Bill also has a timeline posted here.
Overall moving averages are different than overall rates of travel. The moving averages ignore the stop times. In this case we have very little to work with on this move down Reno Creek. The more and longer the stops the faster you have to move to have the same overall rate of travel if you didn't stop.
Post by benteeneast on Jan 7, 2020 19:14:00 GMT -5
I did a search on thoroughbred and by my posts back to 2015. I can find none that state I thought that troopers rode papered thoroughbreds. Also zero that they rode race horses. If I missed one it could be buried in the over approximate 100 times you use the word thoroughbred.
Here is as close as you I can find.
I think the Cavalry selected for a thoroughbred type conformation and it didn't matter about lineage.
You can not fool all the people into believing that a thoroughbred type conformation means it is a thoroughbred.
We started this when I stated they weren't Quarter Horse conformation horses since it didn't even exist at the time.
I think the many times you posted that they didn't ride race horses or thoroughbreds is an attempt to make some believe you by saying it so many times that I ever said that. Here is what I found.
Experienced horsepeople can usually spot a breed type in most grade horses.1
crossbred horse is sometimes called a "grade" horse, but this usage is not entirely correct: crossbreds with known ancestry and a pedigree on both sides are often quite valuable for their mix of breed characteristics—some to the point that a new breed registry is created for them, and the "crossbred" eventually becomes a separate, new breed with true-breeding characteristics. Popular crossbreds that in time obtained their own breed registry include the Irish Sport Horse (Irish Draught/Thoroughbred), Quarab (American Quarter Horse/Arabian horse), Anglo-Arabian (Thoroughbred/Arabian), German riding pony (Assorted pony breeds crossed on assorted light saddle horse breeds) AraAppaloosa (Arabian and Appaloosa), and the National Show Horse (American Saddlebred/Arabian). 1
1 Pavia, Audrey, Horses for Dummies, 1999.
I would think the cavalry horse buyers in the 1860-70s should be experienced horse people and be able to spot a breed type in most grade horses. I see no difference in my use of thoroughbred type conformation and "spot a breed type". If you do how would it differ?
What about "a horse of a different color"? Or, are we all going over the rainbow?
My Department bought a dappled gray horse for our House Rock Valley ranch. His papered name was Navajo Apache and we called him Apache. He went from a dark gray color to white over time. He led an interesting life at the Raymond Ranch which we owned and had buffalo there. In retirement he moved south and finally ended his life with a Department person taking him. She called him Apache Kid and she wrote an article about him in our Wildlife Views magazine.
So it is common for gray horses to change into a horse of a different color.