Post by benteeneast on Jan 1, 2009 12:36:43 GMT -5
- themselves go off on unsubstantiated charges to back up their claim that Thompson's work was fiction: That is to me
- the worst kind of poltroon idiocy that I have ever witnessed!
Boston you remind me of Realbird and Joseph Wiggs in style. Show us where anyone here has posted that Thompson's work was fiction. The key being work rather than a single incident. bandbox troop only talked about a incident and not the entire works of Peter Thompson. I doubt many dispute his bravery for getting water. Some days are better than others.
It seems to me you have confused him with W. J. Ghent who wrote "Whether it arose as pure delusion, as did the somewhat similar myth developed by Peter Thompson, of Company C" page 278 Custer Myth.
Did you find the source for Benteen abandoning the guidon?
I choose to believe that among most accounts there are truths as they actually occurred, truths as they believed things occurred, truths that they have convinced themselves have occurred and then untruths in some accounts. Sorting them out is what we do.
By truths I mean only that the person believes it when stating it.
Post by bandboxtroop on Jan 1, 2009 16:13:08 GMT -5
Wo, I never stated Benteen lost a troop guidon. It was A Troop, and G Troop of Reno's Battalion that lost the guidons. None of Benteens Battalion or the pack train guard lost a guidon. There was no guidon left on Weir Point. It was held by the bearer planted in the ground so Any troops could see it and yes it would have been from Benteens Battalion as the only guidon left with Reno was M troops and its staff was abandoned in the timber and the guidon was attached to a carbine by Capt French. No one left a US flag guidon on Weir Point. The only other guidons lost were the 5 Troop guidons of Custer's Battalion C, E, F, I and L troop and 2 of these were recovered on June 26 and 27 but kept and secreted by the finders. There is no source stating Beteen abandoned a guidon Ive been researching the guidon issue a good 3 years now. The only thing abandoned was a wounded Farrier Vincent Charlie on the ride back. Im not a Benteen follower but I dont want to see soldier accused of acts he didnt do.
Someone, I think Benteeneast, asked if there was a source for Benteen having LEFT a guidon planted on Weir Point. I would like to ask if anyone has a source, other than Benteen or Reno, that a guidon was PLANTED there by anyone.
I believe that DeRudio was switched to Company A prior to the 1876 campaign, and that he complained about it, apparently believing that he, not Smith, should have the command of E Company. I think the Custer letter was written to answer that complaint. The Captain of A Company was Miles Moylan, who refused to allow DeRudio to mess with him. According to Benteen, it was only through his intercession that DeRudio got a horse, a revolver, and a place to eat.
Last Edit: Jan 1, 2009 22:34:48 GMT -5 by biggordie
I know - Benteen said he gave DeRudio one of his personal Colt's [as I recall]. As to the mess, apparently DeRudio had been put in the position of having to "dine" with Fred Gerard, before being "rescued" by Benteen. It would seem that he, DeRudio, was not the most popular guy in the regiment.
To the Adjutant General of the Army Washington D.C. Sir Feeling that the manner in which I have been treated by the present Regimental Commander is unjust and such action having been sanctioned by the Department Commander after the hereto appended request (and to which I have not even received a reply), I would respectfully request that action may be taken on my request to the General of the Army of last April.
During a personal interview with the General Commanding the Department granted me at my request, the General told me the [that] “he would not answer my communication at present.”
I have the honor to inform the General that in order to deprive me of my right, another 1st Lieutenant (Smith) has been temporarily assigned to command my own company ("E") and I have been assigned to Company “A” to which he (Smith) properly belongs.
Hoping that the General of the Army will adjust my lawful claim, by ordering me to assumed the command of my own company, I have the honor to be
Very Respectfully Your Obt Servant Charles C. DeRudio 1st Lieut 7th Cavalry Through Regimental Head Quarters 1st Endorsement Headqrs. 7th Cavalry Fort A. Lincoln, D.T. May 14, 1876 Respectfully forwarded. Lieut. DeRudio is the junior 1st Lieut of this Regiment, having only been promoted to that grade with the past few months. Lieut. Smith, the officer assigned to command the company to which Lieut. DeRudio belongs, has held the grade of 1st Lieut. for several years and is an officer of extensive experience, not only as a company commander but in service against hostile Indians.
Lieut. DeRudio possesses neither the experience nor the ability which can be claimed for Lieut. Smith, nor is he a fit person in my opinion to exercise not only the command of, but to be the only officer present with, a cavalry company, liable to be called upon at any moment to engage in important service against hostile Indians. He is a confirmed grumbler, and asserting to his own confession is a natural conspirator, having once barely averted suffering the death penalty for conspiracy against the life of the sovereign of the land in which he formerly resided. He is, all things considered, the inferior of every first lieutenant in this Regt. as an efficient and sub-ordinate officer.
The transfer of Lieut. DeRudio to “A” Company was made partially at his request and to give two officers to each company.
No better commentary could probably be made upon the value of Lieut. DeRudio’s services as a company officer than to state that the Captain of the company to which Lieut. DeRudio has been assigned, protesting in respectful terms against having Lieut. DeRudio in the company, preferring to perform the entire duty alone.
I would further add that while I regard Lieut. Smith as a most excellent company commander, he was not designated by me to command Lieut. DeRudio’s company.
G. A. Custer Lieut. Colonel 7th Cavalry Brev. Major Genl. U.S.A. Comdg. Regiment
DeRudio had wintered over at Ft Rice after his promotion. Capt McDougall, after his promotion wintered with Co E at Ft Totten. I believe Smith was assigned to E in March at the same time Calhoun was assigned to Co L. Smith and Calhoun met these companies on their way from FT Totten to Ft Lincoln. I think MacDougall met his new command, Co B, at St Paul.
Gen Terry, the Department Commander, was probably not the person to compain to when Lt Smith was involved. Smith was still troubled by a wound received while serving on Terry's staff during the Civil War.
That would have been Reno who made the assignments in March then and not Custer. I think that is what Custer meant in his last sentence of the reply. DeRudio's original beef would have been with Reno since Custer was in Washington at the time, I believe. Seems like Custer backed Reno on this making DeRudio mad at the both of them.
What was DeRudio thinking?! To write a letter above his commander's head for such a matter is akin to mutiny, in any regiment. He obviously thought his fate had been sealed already, as to his reputation within the 7th Cavalry, and so had nothing to lose by writing the letter.
Gerry What is your source for the DeRudio account? It appears to be the "Lt Charles DeRudio's Letter" found in The Custer Myth, page 253, "(alleged to have been written by Major Brisbin though signed by DeRudio)". Benteeneast
Yes, you are correct it does appear that it came from a newspaper article from the New York Herald, July 30, 1876, signed Yours truly, CHARLES C. DERUDIO. But I see in the notes that W.A. Graham suggested that Major James Brisbin may have had a hand in the letter's composition.
It gets better. Walter Camp writes
DeRudio personally did not write any newspaper stories in 1876, 77, or 78. There is a story written in the first person under the name of Lieut. DeRudio but it is written by Major Brisbin, of the 2nd Cavalry. DeRudio told me himself, and cautioned me not to take all of it seriously, saying that Brisbin "colored" it a good deal....I think in 1876 Brisbin got paid for them all...
From Graham, The Custer Myth. This letter appeared in the New York Herald, July 30, 1876. Though signed by LT Carlo DeRudio, it was allegedly written by Brisbin. [From the way it was written, it sounds nothing like the way DeRudio spoke at the RCOI, 2 1/2 years later.]
1. About 10 a. m. Custer returned to his command [from the Crow’s Nest] to report a large Indian village had been discovered.  2. The Indians appeared to be running.  3. The march then continued and in 2 or 3 miles, Custer halted and divided the command.  4. Reno charged down the LBH valley but halted in front “of an immense and blinding cloud of dust,” ordering his command to dismount and form a skirmish line.  5. The line’s right flank rested on a dry and thickly wooded creek. 
[As the narrative continues, it becomes increasingly clear DeRudio did not write it. The writer tells of the entire command crossing the creek into a park-like setting where there were Indian lodges and 200 “yelping” Indians. The entire story is so far off DeRudio’s RCOI testimony as to be virtually worthless.]
DeRudio's letter was forwarded through Custer as regimental commander, so it went through the chain of command. I think there was more bickering allowed between officers in those days. Keep in mind the story of Braxton Bragg.
Custer was briefly present at Ft Lincoln in Mar 76 and may have had some input inot assigning Smith. DeRudio was still wintering at Ft Rice and may not have come up to Lincoln until about the time Cos H and M marched in early May. By that time Co E had been at Lincoln more than 2 weeks. DeRudio may have thought this gave him a fair claim to command.
There is also a story told in "With Custer's Cavalry" that Custer had offered a transfer and in effect command of Co E to Lt Gibson. Mrs Gibson nixed the transfer. It is possible that Custer was thinking of using Smith as accting assistant QM which he had done before. I believe Elisabeth posted on the other Board that Lt Nowlan had not expected to go out on the campaign that summer.