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Post by keogh on Aug 3, 2008 18:30:19 GMT -5
We had our first "official" NYC Roundtable Meeting on Saturday, Aug. 2, at P. J. Clarkes, a well known restaurant and watering hole on 55th Street and 3rd Ave. www.pjclarkes.com/ In attendance were Fred Wagner, rch, Don Horn, Charles Merkante, Steve Schwartz, Joe Creadon, and myself. Charles brought along an enlarged photo of the "Swing Around the Circle" party, including Custer, Pres. Andrew Johnson, Gideon Welles, U.S. Grant, Wesley Merritt, Pleasanton, and a few others. Joe brought along his photo album of the battlefield and related sites, and Jim Donovan's excellent book, "A Terrible Glory". We ended up having our usual 4 hour meeting discussing many different topics relating to the battlefield and other areas of interest. We sat at an appropriate round table two down from Sinatra's table under the wall clock and enjoyed a delicious meal of their famous burgers and fries (tip: the onion rings are much better), beer and coffee. Fred also ordered an appetizer of raw oysters, which he polished off with much relish. The top chef (Mr. Nick Rizzo) came by the table to be introduced to our more distinguished members as he was convinced we were a table of Custer experts of some note. I introduced him to our several published authors (or soon to be published authors) and television personalities (ie. documentaries) and we were given the red carpet treatment from that time forward. We all had a wonderful afternoon and look forward to our next get-together next month at a soon to be determined location in Manhattan. Anyone who lives in the area is invited to join us. Just drop us a note to let us know so we can arrange to get a table that will accommodate all of us. keogh
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2008 12:45:19 GMT -5
Monday afternoon at the library and now my turn.
Ladies and Gentlemen!
I am delighted to inform you that our 4th New York City Custer Round Table was a resounding and even more successful event than I had hoped for. This was the first time we asked anyone other than we three souses to join, and we were graced by the presence of Don Horn, Steve Schwartz, Charles Markantes, and Joe Creadon, so there were seven of us at P. J. Clarke’s. For a while, we actually thought the chef might join us, for he came out and asked us who we were, and when we explained it he began to relate some of what he knew about the battle and of his own nascent interest. “I couldn’t help but seeing how engrossed all you guys were. What’s up?” When we told him, he asked, “Should Custer have brought the Gatling guns?” “NO!”, maybe the only unanimous answer of the entire 3 1/2-hour session. Maps, pictures, Joe’s photo album of the LBH, Ray’s guidon, Charles’ framed photo of an 1866 parade review with Andrew Johnson, U. S. Grant, George Custer, George Meade (blame Ray for identifying that one and a few others, as well)—and several people only Ray could know—all made their way across the tops of beer and hamburgers, French fries and chicken, shrimp and oysters (and lots of onions). I proved to Don why Sharpshooters’ Ridge was wrong, Don proved to me why it wasn’t. Then the waiter got involved, then the floor manager… and of course, the chef returned; all amid the hubbub of a Saturday crowd in a fine old joint in New York City.
I brought Gordon Harper’s name up in vain and cursed him for not being there; the others laughed, gave me a thumbs down, and wished he were with us, as well. We all bemoaned the absence of Eric Wittenberg—true!—figured he could identify some of the others in Charles’ photo; and every man-jack among us voted that we want Melani to show up all the time. The toasts were made as promised and we voted to do it again, hopefully next month.
Topics discussed: SSR versus the bluffs; Reno in the valley; Benteen’s scout; Benteen (where were you Myron and Buddy Steves when I needed you!!!); Frank Finckle, Billy Heath, and Mike Nunnally; Richard Fox and “no last stand”; the “lone tepee” and Gerard’s Knoll; Benteen’s route; Ford A; “re-rides” of the battlefield; Custer’s tactics!; Reno’s behavior in the timber; soldiers of the 1860’s and on; and I am sure several other subjects in cross-conversations shouted above the din. I am equally sure we never reached unanimous agreement on anything other than having a good time.
The only fly in the ointment was the damn battery was dead on my camera and we are unable to post a picture.
Somehow, for whatever reason, this thing never changes. Simply, it gets more interesting as time goes on. What a pleasure to listen to Joe and Charles and Steve and Don. How much there is to learn… how much everyone contributes.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by ericwittenberg on Aug 4, 2008 13:54:25 GMT -5
Fred, Sounds like fun, and I wish could have been there. Unfortunately, and as you know, Columbus is not exactly around the corner from Manhattan. Those types of discussions are always educational, and I am certain I could have learned a lot in the process, as I am no expert on the LBH. Perhaps another time, with adequate advance notice..... Eric
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Post by Melani on Aug 4, 2008 14:12:15 GMT -5
Wow, I'm honored! I would love to be there all the time, but it's a rather long commute...but the relatives in Hartford have five kids, who will all be graduating, etc...I'm sure I can manufacture some more excuses to visit...
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damick
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Post by damick on Aug 4, 2008 19:11:54 GMT -5
Freddie, sounds like y'all had a great time. When we are out there next June, wouldn't it be nice if we could make it up to SSR? Maybe Rich could get us up there.
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Post by conz on Aug 5, 2008 8:26:39 GMT -5
LOL...next time you can borrow my 4'x6' 3D terrain board of the Custer field and either prop it against the wall, or just put it on the table and eat on it! The spilt ketchup would only add to its ambiance...
ConZ
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2008 10:16:16 GMT -5
Every one of you guys--
You all would be welcome, at any time. And "Damick," permission or no, it is SSR or bust. Besides, I have the CBPC map (I'll have to re-check it). And we will get Rich Fox to get us there if all else fails. And, you would be amazed at how much "ignorance" can help!!!
Best wishes, Fred.
PS-- By the way, I do not have his permission to tell you who, but one of our number on Saturday, was in the collapsing WTC towers. That was some supplement to the disaster at the LBH. FCW
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Post by Melani on Aug 5, 2008 16:43:52 GMT -5
Glad he got out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2008 10:51:27 GMT -5
Y'all--
I will throw out a date and restaurant in NYC for our next little hoo-hah. Let me have your input and we will see how we can bring it off:
Saturday, September 13, 2008, 12:30 p.m., at Keene's.
If this is a "go," I will post the telephone number, address, etc., including the correct spelling of the restaurant (in case it is "K-e-A-n-e's).
Best wishes, Fred.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2008 19:47:10 GMT -5
Okay, Keane's [?] is OUT. Not open until the evening.
Bill has suggested McSorley's. If that is OK, I will post the details.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2008 12:48:17 GMT -5
Unless things change-- and any changes will be posted here-- the September NYC Roundtable will be held at:
12:30 p.m., Saturday, September 13, 2008, at McSorley's 15 East 7th Street between Second and Third Avenues.
I will be at Grand Central Station around noon and will meet anyone who wants to share a taxi (that usually means Bill and Ray). I will leave GCS around 12:20.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by keogh on Sept 3, 2008 22:51:15 GMT -5
Apparently, McSorley's Ale House in has been around since the days Custer and Keogh walked the streets of New York. From McSorley's website: www.mcsorleysnewyork.com/home.htmlMcSorley's Old Ale House has been a gathering place, a watering hole, the subject of art and literature and even a supreme court controversy. Established in 1854 - McSorley's can boast of being New York City's oldest continuously operated saloon. Everyone from Abe Lincoln to John Lennon have passed thru Mcsorley's swinging doors. Woody Guthrie inspired the union movement from a table in the front - guitar in hand, while civil rights attorney's Faith Seidenberg and Karen DeCrow had to take their case to the Supreme Court to gain access. Women were finally allowed access to McSorleyÕs in 1970! So belly up. Enter the sawdust strewn floors and history patched walls for a trip back through time. Share the McSorley's experience with the spirits of 150 years! The spirits of ex-presidents, society figure heads, entertainers and athletes mingle with the working class, the poets and the artists – with a healthy smattering of cats tossed in for good measure! There is vastly more than meets the eye and certainly more than a single visit or even a hundred can possibly reveal. The inspiration for numerous books, paintings and poems, McSorley's retains, to this day, a static serenity. It is an oasis in an age of disposable objects, quick fixes and attention spans that sputter and stall in short order. The bar is the main artery of the Old Ale House. You will notice no stools, standing room only (three deep at times) – the original taps, no longer in use. The old ice chest, houses sodas, the only drink other than ale permissible. You'll find no cash register at McSorley's – there's never been one and probably never will. A sign above states "We Trust Here" and shows a pig's behind! Above the bar, wishbones gather many generations worth of dust from their perch on the old gas lamp. Look closely and you'll spot an original wanted poster for Abe Lincoln's assassin as well as Babe Ruth's farewell photo from Yankee stadium (a donation from the photographer-a regular himself). The legendary backroom (where the ale flowed during prohibition), is adorned with the infamous, and very risque (for its time), portrait of a nude with her parrot. Until 1970, she was the only female regular in the place! The old fireplace is also in the backroom-that's where the original owner-John McSorley held court (as witnessed in a well-known John Sloan sketch nearby). Above the fireplace is the McSorley's motto Ð "Be Good or Be Gone", as well as a portrait of Peter Cooper, founder of Cooper Union.
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Post by thehighwayman on Sept 5, 2008 9:38:10 GMT -5
Keogh,
I still remember when McSorley's was integrated. In the gender sense.
CBS News' Harry Reasoner reported from there during lunch hour on that first day. McSorley's was absolutely swarmed with women (standing five deep at the bar alone) all chattering away. Small groups of men were standing on the edges of the crowd. All with stunned and disbelieving looks on their faces, as they sipped absent mindedly from their mugs of beer.
In his famous tongue-in-cheek style and with his down-to-earth and bemused sense of humor, Reasoner reported that McSorley's now sounded "...like a large hen house still discussing the previous night's intruder."
highway
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Post by keogh on Sept 5, 2008 18:35:30 GMT -5
LOL....Yes, I remember when McSorley's was forced to allow women thru their doors. That was the opening salvo of our much vaunted Political Correctness movement. How the world has changed since the ol' days. Who would ever have believed back then that we'd see a woman running for President---or Vice-President! It will be interesting to see how many women we find in McSorley's when we meet next Saturday. Come to think of it, I don't recall seeing any in P.J. Clarkes (other than the hostess) at last month's rountable.
Keogh
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Post by Melani on Sept 6, 2008 1:46:19 GMT -5
Let me know if you run into Sarah Palin in there! And see if you can get her to shoot you a moose burger.
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