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Post by tunkasila on Oct 7, 2012 14:13:11 GMT -5
A young poster named 'walsh' posted up elsewhere the following comments regarding the firing of volleys from Custer's troops. It should be pointed out that none other than General Godfrey agrees with him on his views: Walsh wrote: As I have noted before, volleys would not have been useful in this fight for anything other than signalling. The way the Indians fought made it obsolete. I always read how they would lay on the ground and than quickly pop up to fire at the soldiers. What could volleys do against this strategy? If there was volley firing, my bet is it was signalling for help. There is no concrete evidence for volley firing. Just because you find shell casings in a line doesn't mean they were discharged from a firearm simultaneously although the possibility remains. It could have been a skirmish line of troopers who were firing at will. General Godfrey was convinced that the volley firing so distinctly heard on Reno Hill was a signal by Custer for Reno to come on. garryowen, keogh Ah, the famous volley firing. Or was it, as walsh questions? Fact is, walsh is proposing the opposite of Godfrey. Godfrey says it was volley firing and was a signal to Reno to come to Custer. Walsh is saying that volley firing was useless in Indian fights, there is no concrete evidence for it and could have been a skirmish line firing at will. Imo it was repeated heavy firing rather than volleys and could have been distorted by the local acoustics to sound like volleys. BTW, when Godfrey put forward his argument, he had moved very much to defending Custer and being critical of Reno. Tunkasila |
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Post by herosrest on Oct 1, 2017 8:22:37 GMT -5
Hi, as a newcomer to the board, apart from the fact that I have a bagful of questions I'd like to ask, I'd like to mull over a problem with timing and what Custer may have been up to before those volleys were heard. Now it's generally agreed that the last sighting of Custers command was around 3.25, { I'm using Grays timing here as that is the one I am familiar with,} and that Martin must have left with that message at around 3.30 from somewhere close to where Cedar and MTC meet. Incidently, I've put to one side De-Rudios sighting as I find that somewhat problematic. From there I believe Custer then moved some distance down MTC before moving on up onto Luce ridge, from whence he could get his first real view of the extent of the village and what was happening in it. Now I have no idea this would have taken, but I doubt it was very long, especially given that one imagines he wished to get stuck in as rapidly as possible. Once on Luce he no doubt spent a little time viewing what was going on; too many warriors still rushing off to fight Reno, and the rest, the non coms heading off towards the horse herd with all that might imply, i.e. they might round up the herd and exit post haste whilst the warriors held the enemy back. So, if we allow 10 minutes for him to arrive on Luce, { generous I'd say,} and 5 more for surveying the scene, we are still only at 3.45, in other words at least twenty minutes before anyone heard any firing. That's not to say that Custers command didn't do any; on the Bonafede map, if you look closely, you can see that he has marked firing residue from around the point they would have turned out of MTC and ascended the southern slope of Luce. For the most part this is light and looks as if it were being fired by men on the move, but there is quite a cluster just below the crown facing in a generally South, South Western direction, which begs the question, who could they be firing at so early on, Wolf Tooth and Big Foots Cheyennes? From the amount of spent cartridges that have been found from there on, and the reports we have that some of the firing at least was delivered by dismounted men on skirmish lines, one can only conclude two things, A. that it took far longer than Custer would have wished, to traverse Luce and Nye Cartwright, and B. there must have been a deal of Indian pressure being exerted on them from fairly early on. Oh dear, like many of those that post on these boards, I started out with a question or two niggling away at the back of my mind, questions which I foolishly imagined I could get down in a line or two, and now here I am halfway through a novel. I suppose my questions are, A. where do you think those volleys were being fired from, and B. if the answer is Luce or Nye Cartwright, why was Custer still in either of these areas when one would have assumed he would be heading hell bent for ford D? BlueHorse The village inhabitants did not decamp. For example, Two Moons made this clear as day. They fled in panic with a handful of pemmican and the children. The soldiers were upon them and less than a mile away. How were they going to pack up and elude the troops. The travelling buffalo hunters were excellent at EVADING cavalry which is how and why they were hit at dawn in the middle of winter. The only tactic which worked. The women, children at Greasy Grass fled west - across the valley onto hills there. They did not go for the pony herds. The pony herders did that which is what they did and they returned with ponies to mount the warriors who then crossed Realbird and whacked Custer. Amen. The volleys were specifically described by Varnum at RCoI. Godfrey was deaf but heard them and drew poor conclusion because he was deaf. These 'volleys' were decribed in the Timber and Powell accounts of the Cheyenne fight. They were the end of stand off and start of rush to mono et mono with the fight shortly thereafter - OVER. Therefore the firing which McDougall heard was that same gunfire given by Varnum and Godfrey and others. After that time, Company D was interposed, out of sight beyond Weir Peak and firing its weapons. Nothing further of Custer was heard. Company D heard only straggling shots once they reached Weir Peak and that is the factual record. Nelson A. Miles was 'sent' to investigate the battle in 1878. Note - To conduct an investigation of the events of the battle. His findings were not presented to the Reno Inquiry. They are published in his memoirs in two chapters which categorixcally state that large numbers of hostiles attacked Custer's command by riding to the attack from Weir's Peak across Medicine Tail Creek. I am desperately trying to recall a single modern history of the battle which tells of that happening.  Post ACW, Nelson A. Miles guarded Jefferson Davis. Miles kept him in chains, shuffling around. Pretty cool. Way ahead of his time. |
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