I can also argue against myself. It is June 24. How many single,visiting male Indians would even need a wickiup? All they need is a blanket and they could and would sleep outside. It is nice this time of year. In theory, there could be 3000 extra warriors and NONE of them would have needed a wickiup. So instead of saying that there were about 7000 in the village, I am going to switch to 25000. No one could prove one or the other.
Aye...its an ephemeral concept to put a lot of time in for the potential results, but still a fun "logic" exercise.
- How to count wikiups from other structures? Especially just ground signs of them, not the actual structures? - Same "did the village move" problem as in counting tipi circles. - How to determine how many Warriors would use one wikiup? Where wikiups of different sizes for multiple sleepers? - Some Warriors might want to sleep under one, or store his things there, and others wouldn't.
But they do show one thing...that there were more Warriors in the village than could comfortably all sleep together inside the tipis of friends and family. So we can be fairly confident that the Warrior count should be higher than normally indicated by "Warriors per tipi" rules (1.5 to 2.0 generally).
But how much higher? Good guessing...my own personal model uses 600 extra Warriors above the "tipi rule," since I've seen evidence of wikiups for as few as 400, and as many as 800, with different studies.
Guessing who might write (and know) stuff like that, et voilà:
"In one of the dismantled sweat lodges, much like the remains of the low wickiups but with stones that had been fireheated and then doused with water ..." Mari Sandoz
"Sometimes a willow frame is made, as for a sweat lodge or an eastern wigwam, by setting long willow shoots in the round in a circle 8 or 10 feet across. The shoots, 10 feet or more in length and as big around as a man's thumb, are bent over and twisted and tied together in pairs, forming a domelike structure. Across the top of this, a piece of canvas is spread and fastened." The Indian Tipi, the Laubins
Would anyone who don't know about the cultural significance even spend a moment on thinking what might be the difference between otherwise identical wooden frames, some with stones in it and some without?
Another construct likely to be encountered in an Indian camp in late June:
"When camped for several days during a hot spell, Indians often made a brush arbor, referred to as a "wicky" a shade, or a "squaw cooler". These are common today, a part of almost every Indian homestead, even though the people live in houses or cabins. The "wicky" is setting by for or more strong forked posts in the ground at the corners of a rectangle, laying stout poles from fork to fork, with other poles crossing these every foot or so, and covering the entire structure with fresh-cut leafy boughs." The Indian tipi
Did THOSE got mentioned in any accounts? How hot was it (see the "Weather" thread)? If they would also have been encountered and counted as "wickiups", the number of "wickiups" actually NOT housing warriors might have been fairly large indeed.
Good job fuchs. I can use all the help I can get. While you are looking for things. Try and find out what the structures looked like that the Indians used when they dried their meat, to make pemmican. It might just open a few more eyes. But it might be received better coming from you.
From some of the stories, the village was getting ready to move but it was the women that didn't want to move because they were finishing drying meat and working on the buffalo hides and they wanted another day.. I don't know how true that is.
Last Edit: May 20, 2011 14:57:47 GMT -5 by rosebud
Moylan said there were 400 wickiups scattered throughout the timber along the river.
Wooden Leg also told Marquis, these were wickiups housing young, single warriors who had joined the main camp. [Willert, LBH Diary, p. 228; Godfrey, Custer’s Last Battle 1876, p. 17] <fred> Has anyone seen the original source for this (didn't see it in Wooden Leg)?
Edit: Found it p.:210 "A few unmarried young man had little willow dome and robe shelters. Old couples likewise had this kind of temporary housing"
Once again, I might overinterprete the exact wording here, but this is NOT equivalent to "these were single warriors from the agencies".
p.249: "The first person I met who took special interest in me was my mother's mother. She was living in a little willow dome lodge of her own."
Try and find out what the structures looked like that the Indians used when they dried their meat, to make pemmican.
You mean this? Seems to be similar to the "squaw cooler" in construction principle. They come also in tripodial shape, looking a bit like a scaled down tipi frame. Found no good picture for that, though there is a nice specimen in the background of Tom Lovell's "Comanche Moon". Don't think those could be mistaken for lodgings, though
Just for my own knowledge, Steves post made me think of something(Always dangerous)One question and one observation
Question...would not the movement of thousands of people, their supplies and the immense pony herd have obliterated many of these circles.
Observation...Perhaps the Army didn't care to know exactly how many lodgings there were. If the entire regiment had been destroyed than sure, they would want to know what size village and people could wipe out an Army regiment. But they had hundreds of soldiers that survived and watched the Indians leave to tell them how many there were.
Just a thought
Be Well Dan
Last Edit: May 20, 2011 15:33:32 GMT -5 by benteen
What about reports on the campsite where Sitting Bull's Sundance was held? It was a less stressfully situation. At least the arbor should have drawn some attention, and might have encouraged curiosity in the other stuff standing around.
In the first days of June, what fraction of the influx in reservation Indians in general, and single warriors specifically, would already have arrived?
I have seen a number of ~400 lodges for that camp floating around several times. If this is correct, the answer would most likely have been "not many" (according to Bray, 100 lodges from Red Cloud, the closest agency, were the first to arrive and the only big chunk before the Sundance)
The temperature probably not that high yet, and the weather at times rather uncomfortable, I suspect even the most distant of cousins would have been able to procure a sleeping place in one of the lodges, given the context of Lakota culture.
Accordingly, most or all "wickiups" in that camp would have been sweatlodges.