|
|
Post by keogh on Oct 19, 2011 16:04:47 GMT -5
From a letter written by Lt. Garlington shortly after the Little Big Horn battle:
It was sometime in the early morning when Colonel Weir decided to go to camp in the dougherty wagon awaiting his orders. With him was our surgeon, Dr. Taylor, and Lieutenant I. Colonel Weir did not like this lieutenant, and after he had gotten a short distance out of the post, he ordered the driver to stop and got out, saying he would not ride in the same vehicle with Lieutenant I. Of course, the doctor remonstrated; Lt. I. offered to get out, but Col. Weir would not listen to any reason, and during the conversation struck off in the dark, saying he would walk to camp. It was a dark night. The officers in the ambulance thought, of course, that he would come back after reflection, but several minutes passed and he did not return; so they got out and began to look for him. He could not be found anywhere. There was a small stream of water emptying into the river, quite deep, and with no timber or trees on the bank. Dr. Taylor, on reaching this stream followed it in one direction; Lt. I. the other; finally, Lt. I. called out: "Here he is." Weir was in a deep hole in the stream -- a sort of pocket; he had lost his hat and had to swim to keep his head above water. Lieutenant I. extended his hand and tried to persuade him to allow him to pull him out, but Weir resolutely refused, saying he would drown before he would be assisted by Lieutenant I.; and it was only when Dr. Taylor arrived he would permit himself to be extricated from his cold bath.
As he rode out the next morning, a little after daylight, at the head of the regiment, he presented a sorry spectacle; his clothes were all wet and wrinkled, and he wore a little narrow brimmed hat --that I remember -- looked like a small boy's hat, from which the band had been lost, giving it a sugarloaf shape. He always carried his shoulders very high, but this morning his head seemed to be buried in them. He rode a very handsome black horse named 'Jake', known as 'Old Jake' all through the regiment. 'Old Jake', on this occasion, seemed to feel really humiliated at the appearance of his rider and commanding officer.
|
|
|
|
Post by benteen on Oct 19, 2011 16:36:38 GMT -5
keogh,
Bill, putting our difference aside as to Custer, this would seem that Tom Weir had lost it. We know of some of the officers, Weir, French, Reno who after this battle buried themselves in a bottle, and these were men that were in the Civil War. We don't know about the 300 enlisted men who may have done the same thing. We can try to imagine how terrible this fight was, but I don't think we will ever fully understand the complete horror that was the Battle of Little Big Horn for these men.
Be Well
Dan
|
|
|
|
Post by keogh on Oct 20, 2011 11:23:30 GMT -5
Ok Bill, so who was Lieutenant I? Wallace maybe? bc Britt, it would refer to a Lt. with a last name beginning with the letter 'I'. There was a Lt. Isley, or something similar to that, in the 7th Cavalry after the LBH. I can't recall what company he was in. Rch should know this. @ Dan: I agree with you. I think, in addition to Reno, Weir, & French we can add the name of Frederick Benteen to those officers whose careers went downhill after the LBH. All of them suffered the effects of serious alcohol abuse that ended their careers either early or badly. keogh |
|
|
|
Post by rch on Oct 20, 2011 13:38:44 GMT -5
keogh
Capt Charles Ilsley may be the officer you're thinkig of. He was actually Capt of Co G, but he had never joined the regiment ("joined" was the term used at the time and seems to have meant physically showing up to serve with the company). He was an ADC on Gen Pope's staff. While he eventually served with his company, that must have been after Dec 1876.
Weir was breifly in charge of the regiment's march between Ft Buford and Ft Lincoln in Sep 76. The post referred to in the Garlington quote was probably Ft Buford. There was a 2nd Lt Charles Ingalls assigned to Co B, 6th Inf. This Co was aboard the Far West as guard for the boat at the time of the LBH, but Ingalls was probably not with the company at that time. Ingalls was a new officer and had been assigned to one of the Inf Recuit Depots in the spring of 1876. However he may have joined his company or another company of the 6th Inf while they were in the field, as had Garlington himself the 7th. Co B, may have been marching back to Ft Lincoln, where it eventually took winter station. The returns of the 6th Inf might shed more light on Lt Ingalls location.
It sounds like some of the officers took advantage of the proximity of Ft Buford to enjoy the pleasures of the post.
rch
|
|
|
|
Post by keogh on Oct 22, 2011 12:59:07 GMT -5
keogh Capt Charles Ilsley may be the officer you're thinking of. He was actually Capt of Co G, but he had never joined the regiment ("joined" was the term used at the time and seems to have meant physically showing up to serve with the company). He was an ADC on Gen Pope's staff. While he eventually served with his company, that must have been after Dec 1876. Weir was breifly in charge of the regiment's march between Ft Buford and Ft Lincoln in Sep 76. The post referred to in the Garlington quote was probably Ft Buford. There was a 2nd Lt Charles Ingalls assigned to Co B, 6th Inf. This Co was aboard the Far West as guard for the boat at the time of the LBH, but Ingalls was probably not with the company at that time. Ingalls was a new officer and had been assigned to one of the Inf Recuit Depots in the spring of 1876. However he may have joined his company or another company of the 6th Inf while they were in the field, as had Garlington himself the 7th. Co B, may have been marching back to Ft Lincoln, where it eventually took winter station. The returns of the 6th Inf might shed more light on Lt Ingalls location. It sounds like some of the officers took advantage of the proximity of Ft Buford to enjoy the pleasures of the post. rch Thanks for that information rch. I figured you would have a handle on that. And yes, Ilsley was the gent I was thinking of, although Garlington claims it to be a Lt. It might well be an infantry Lt. stationed at Fort Buford too. keogh |
|
|
|
Post by keogh on Dec 12, 2011 15:05:20 GMT -5
General Custer writes to his wife Libbie -- Feb. 13th, 1869 -- reflecting his some of his personal views of Captain Weir. My own comments in yellow:I must change my subject to tell you an incident just occurring. Col. T. B. Weir, it seems, still retains a little bit of his huffy spirit. I require all officers to ask permission before leaving camp, and never refuse any thus far, merely desiring to know who are absent. A verbal request is all that has been required. But TBW [ie. Thomas Benton Weir], this day, to overwhelm me, no doubt, by his closely drawn official conduct, sent to Mr. Moylan [Lt. Moylan was serving as Adjutant at this time] a few moments ago, a regularly prepared application 'to be absent from camp one hour and a half', as formally worded an application for one year's leave made to the War Department. Moylan brought the paper to me a moment ago with a smile on his countenance. I was equal to the occasion however. After reading the formal document, I told Moylan, looking at my watch, that Col. W. could have permission to be 'absent from camp one hour and a half, commencing at quarter to twelve, and he should report his return at the expiration of his absence.' Moylan burst into a laugh, knowing that TBW little expected to be treated to the same formal dish as he had prepared. I told Moylan to make his reply to Weir in writing, adding that when a person desired to draw fine points with me, I could be as pointed as anybody. So goes the world.
Weir is acting like the great baby that he is. The only injury he can inflict will be upon himself. I care not the value of a farthing whether he chooses to be friendly or otherwise. My recollections of his friendship are not so pleasant that I would risk much to return it. I have been acting the part of a sincere friend of his, and would have continued to do so had he not acted to prevent it. He seems to construe every official act of mine which does not meet his approval as a means on my part to retaliate for some past act of his towards me. Whether a guilty conscience troubles him or not I do not know, but he certainly mistakes me if he imagines I cherish any spirit of animosity towards him for anything in the past. I only know that with me and mine he hopelessly failed to accomplish his ends, and in attempting his purposes injured no one but himself. [here Custer may be referring to the rumors that Weir attempted to develop a very close friendship with Libby while the General was away in the field during the Hancock Expedition of '67.] I do not know but that I might acknowledge myself indebted to him for an experience that both you and I may be benefited by in the future. It may be that he is sensitive towards me, knowing that I know, and am fully aware of his failure. Be the cause what it may, I am wholly indifferent as to the future relations existing between he and myself; it is for him to decide. . . .
[After writing of his deep love and affection for Libbie, Custer picks up the story of Weir again later in his letter]
Col. TBW this moment knocked at my tent and upon being bidded enter, taking off his cap and standing attention like an orderly, he said, 'I report my return, Genl.', faced about and out he went. The whole thing was so sudden and withal so ridiculous I could scarcely refrain from bursting out laughing. I merely replied 'All right' and resumed my writing. Did you ever know such a ninny? His conduct certainly appears to me as being most absurd, undignified, unmanly, not to say ungrateful.
|
|
Clair
1st Sergeant (Shield Warrior)
Benteen Doesn't Get Here Quick, I'll Have His Ass!
Posts: 150
|
Post by Clair on Dec 12, 2011 15:45:33 GMT -5
Certainly lends credence to the rumors that Weir was making advances on Libby while living with her during Custer's field expedition (that he ran home from and was court-martialled for).
Clair
|
|
|
|
Post by strange on Feb 5, 2013 15:39:08 GMT -5
Here's one... Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by tunkasila on May 19, 2013 15:17:34 GMT -5
When did and where did and how did Weir die? Captain Thomas Benton Weir died on December 9, 1876 in New York City and was buried on December 14, 1876 on Governors Island, New York Harbor, with full military honors. He was reinterred in Cypress Hills National Cemetery. He died of complications brought on by excessive alcohol use. [Moderator note: Weir's official causes of death was listed as 'congestion of the brain.' This suggests to me a possible cerebral hemorrhage.] Tunkasila |
|
|
|
Post by Lt. Godfrey on May 19, 2013 23:10:51 GMT -5
He died in a NYC hotel room. He had been doing some corresponding with Libby Custer and said to her in a letter that, paraphrasing, "I had some very important things about what happened during the BLBH that I must tell you in person". What that was, he took to his grave we will never know for sure unless some type of diary or letter comes to light. Could be something history has found out or it could be something that would solve a lot of arguments. It could even have been something that is totally new information that would rock the academics and those who study the Indian Wars which includes BLBH of course. I doubt that though.
|
|
|
|
Post by tunkasila on May 20, 2013 10:41:46 GMT -5
thankyou for that info. Alcohol. how foolish of me not to realize that would have been the cause. After that ordeal at the Little Big Horn, I should have figured. Actually, Weir was a very heavy drinker well before the LBH. He apparently changed from a cheerful, outgoing prankster who drank very little, to an introvert who drank very heavily after he became a prisoner of the Confederates in the early years of the Civil War. Unusually, at a time when officer exchanges took place regulary, his exchange took over 7 months and it seems he was kept isolated for most of that time. Whatever happened to him certainly changed his nature and his use of strong spirits. He was very friendly with a number of the officers who were killed at LBH and from his actions there, desperate to try and help them, so it ain't surprising his drinking increased after the battle. Tunkasila |
|
|
|
Post by keogh on Nov 22, 2013 20:45:55 GMT -5
Published in the New York Herald, Dec. 28, 1878, my comments in brackets: Part I
The court of inquiry ordered to investigate the alleged misconduct of Major Marcus A. Reno at the battle of the Little Big Horn, June 25, 1876, when General Custer and five companies of the gallant 7th Cavalry lost their lives, will meet at Chicago January 6, when, it is alleged by officers who claim to know, the facts connected with Major Reno's conduct at that battle will startle the country.
One of the officers commanding a company of the 7th Cavalry under Reno on the day of the disaster, was Brevet Lieutenant Colonel Thomas B. Weir, who died in New York City in December of the same year, and who is said to have made and sworn to a statement before his death, [note: no such sworn statement was ever produced and its existence must be questioned. Any such statement made by Weir was apparently verbal in nature.] in which he claimed to have been in full view of the Custer fight when he was sent out to reconnoitre during the action, and that he so reported to Reno and urged that help be given their comrades. The statement adds, it is said, that Reno flatly refused to make the movement as urged, and was openly accused at the time of cowardice by his own officers.
Colonel Weir's statement alleges that when he moved out with his company the sound of the firing from Custer's column was distinctly heard by the whole command, and that the point from which he optained a view of the battle was not more than a mile or a mile and a half from where Reno's command lay. This sworn statement was placed, before Colonel Weir's death, in the hands of a well known New York ex-officer of volunteers, who is widely known as an admirer and biographer of the late General Custer, and who solemnly promised Colonel Weir not to rest until the matter was officially investigated and not to let the contents of the statment become publicly known until an investigation was ordered.
(to be continued)
|
|
|
|
Post by keogh on Nov 23, 2013 2:53:42 GMT -5
Published in the New York Herald, Dec. 28, 1878, my comments in brackets: Part II
The statement was placed in the hands of the proper authorities last summer, after the War Department had ordered an investigation, and was so startling that an examination was ordered inot some of the allegations made. During the past summer a party of officers, including General Nelson A. Miles, Colonel of the 5th Infantry, who was then commanding the Yellowstone district; Colonel Edward W. Smith, aide-de-camp to General Terry, and Lieutenant Edward Maguire, Corps of Engineers, chief engineer officer on General Terry's staff, visited the Little Big Horn and made a series of experiments and measurements, with results which seem fully to prove the assertions made by Colonel Weir and other surviving officers of the ill-fated regiment who were present at the battle. The distance between the points where Reno retreated to and remained, and where Custer fought and fell was accurately measured, and is found to be much less than has always been claimed by Reno in his reports. It was also demonstrated, as refuting Reno's statement in his official report that the distance between the two commands was so great that he could not hear the firing of Custer's column, that a single shot from a carbine or pistol could be plainly heard from either point in nearly every condition of the wind.
The following named officers have been ordered to Chicago to testify in this case: Colonel E. W. Smith, Aide-de-Camp, and Lieutenant Maguire, Corps of Engineers of General Terry's staff, and the following of the 7th Cavalry; Colonel Frederick W. Benteen, Captain Thomas H. French [note: Captain French was not invited to participate in the Reno Court of Inquiry], Myles Moylan, Edward S. Godfrey and Edward G. Mathey, and 1st Lieutenants Charles C. DeRudio, George D. Wallace, Charles A. Varnum and Luther R. Hare.
|
|
|
|
Post by keogh on Nov 23, 2013 14:10:49 GMT -5
Was Colonel his civil war rank? Best wishes Trisha. Hi Trisha. Like many other officers of the 7th Cavalry, Capt. Weir was awarded a brevet rank of Lieutenant Colonel (tho usually referred to simply as 'Colonel') for his contributions during the Civil War. This rank was often used when addressing these officers, hence Custer is generally referred to as "General" Custer, his brevet rank during the Civil War, even tho his rank in the Army in 1876 was a Lt. Col. The same could be said for the following officers using their brevet ranks: Colonel Keogh Colonel Tom Custer Colonel Benteen Colonel Reno Colonel Cooke If you read any of Libbie Custer's books, she refers to the General's brother as 'Colonel Tom', even tho he was officially a Captain in 1876. garryowen, keogh |
|
markh
Sergeant (Elk Warrior)
Posts: 132 
|
Post by markh on Nov 21, 2015 19:51:39 GMT -5
Obviously Weir was suffering from PTSD probably starting with the Civil War, but the LBH probably put him over the top. Truly sad.
|
|
